St. Thomas Campus News
The stars and the way Earth fits into the universe’s bigger picture intrigue many people. It’s pretty rare, though, for someone to be on the cutting edge of finding the planets that fill out that picture.
That’s exactly what Sarah Millholland ’15 started at St. Thomas and now continues at Yale University. She recently contributed to the discovery of some 60 new exoplanets; known as hot Jupiters, these bizarre planets have temperatures that can reach above 2,000 degrees and orbit around stars found far outside our solar system.
“It’s really exciting,” Millholland said. “This project in particular was introducing a new method of finding exoplanets: We were looking at reflected light from the star. People have been proposing that for seven years or so, but no one had undertaken it. It’s cool to be at the forefront of this development.”
Using images from the NASA’s Kepler telescope to base their searching, Millholland’s work helps put our planet into perspective.
“It’s about understanding how our planet and solar system fit in with respect to all these other systems,” she said. “The diversity of planets in the universe and the question, ‘Is this [Earth] a common one, or are we on a rare planet?’ It’s really about our cosmic context.”
Millholland discovered and grew her passion for the stars while she was at St. Thomas, where she originally started as a math student. Some serendipitous scheduling put her in associate professor Gerry Ruch’s introductory physics course her freshman year; she quickly proved exceptionally adept.
“We have six exams. A perfect score on one of those is pretty rare; you’ll maybe see one in the stack. It’s unheard of for someone to get 100 percent on all six, which Sarah did. She aced everything. And everything in the next physics class. She just tore it up,” Ruch said.
Ruch pulled Millholland into a summer research project after her freshman year modeling planets’ rotations around their respective stars. Millholland quickly moved past anything Ruch originally had in mind for the scope of her work, learning from scratch how to code software and eventually developing the programming needed for St. Thomas’ south campus observatory to observe exoplanets. Throughout her four years at St. Thomas she also published papers, presented at a national astronomy conference and secured the prestigious Goldwater Scholarship.
“She’s one-student-in-20-years smart. Ridiculously smart,” Ruch said. “As a freshman coming in she didn’t realize it, so my job was to point her in a direction.”
Millholland said the tutelage of Ruch and the physics faculty was the key to everything she did at St. Thomas.
“I can’t even express in words how instrumental it was to have the physics faculty be so supportive of my academic and research development,” she said. “That’s a huge strength of St. Thomas: You formulate closer relationships with your advisers. Larger universities are more focused on their grad students. Right from the beginning I thought it was so cool you could teach in the classroom and also explore what you’re passionate about in your research. The passion professors there bring to both sides is amazing.”
All her research and coding experience at St. Thomas also gave Millholland a leg up in graduate school at University of California, Santa Cruz, where she connected with adviser Greg Laughlin. When Laughlin went to Yale in 2016 he asked Millholland to join him, and their continued work there is a testament to collaboration and the joy of discovery.
“I would put [finding a new exoplanet] analogous to a sports moment, where you’re just very, very excited. I’ll run up to [Laughlin] like, ‘Look at this!’” Millholland said. “I have to credit him for being very, very excited, which has kept me very excited about these new developments. It’s definitely super fun to work on.”
Millholland said her work over the next three years for her Ph.D. will likely focus on more theoretical areas than the exoplanet hunting she’s undertaken so far, but her overall goal is tied directly back to the teaching emphasis of her St. Thomas professors.
“I’m pretty passionate about teaching students about exoplanets, so a research and teaching path is what most interests me,” she said.
“Tell Me More” is an occasional series from the Newsroom where St. Thomas faculty experts tackle topical questions in their area of study in two minutes. The answers may be presented in written, audio or video form, but they will all have one thing in common: You’ll click away smarter than you were 120 seconds ago.
In this edition of Tell Me More, physics adjunct professor Rich Schuler discusses what makes this Aug. 21 eclipse so special, and why humans connect so strongly to the phenomenon of the sun disappearing.
The following is an edited version of an interview with Schuler earlier this month.
For more than a decade purple bags from the University of St. Thomas booth have been ubiquitous at the Minnesota State Fair. Designs and materials have changed over the years, but one thing has remained the same: People love getting their hands on a purple bag.
“We didn’t know until we arrived that the St. Thomas bags were the hottest giveaway at the fair,” wrote a volunteer after the first giveaway in 2005. “People were so excited to get them and so many people shared that they went to St. Thomas, their children did or were going to, or even that their grandparents went there. It was great fun to see all the excited people.”
That excitement has continued in recent years as giveaway numbers swelled to as many as 100,000 in 2008 before scaling down in recent years. This year’s iteration promises to breathe new life into the tradition with a different “State Fair Sin” for each of the 12 days.
“It was really about how we could find clever avenues to make them humorous but not over the top,” said Pete Winecke, St. Thomas’ creative director. “It was an opportunity to get a branding message out in a unique way, in a unique venue, in a place we know the purple bags are in demand.”
Some 18,000 bags will be given away this year, handed out by volunteers representing different areas of the university. St. Thomas will be stationed under its signature Arches in the Education Building on Cosgrove Street, and specific programs and offices will be highlighted each day. Those include:
Thursday, Aug. 24: College of Arts and Sciences
Friday, Aug. 25: Alumni Association with President Julie Sullivan and Tommie
Saturday, Aug. 26: School of Engineering
Sunday, Aug. 27: Student Affairs and Tommie Athletics
Monday, Aug. 28: Selim Center for Lifelong Learning
Tuesday, Aug. 29: School of Social Work
Wednesday, Aug 30: Global Learning & Strategy
Thursday, Aug. 31: School of Law
Friday, Sept. 1: Opus College of Business
Monday, Sept. 4: College of Education, Leadership and Counseling
Bag giveaways will begin at 9 a.m., 12:30 p.m., 3:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. Visitors are encouraged to stop by the booth early for a chance at getting a tote bag.
In addition to visiting the booth, fair goers can share their St. Thomas state fair experience with their friends on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter by snapping photos of themselves with their purple “State Fair Sins” bags at the booth and around the fair and sharing their photos using the hashtags #TommiesattheFair and #StateFairSins.
Undergraduate students contribute to research projects all the time at St. Thomas; for engineering senior John Fetzner, that research also has strong personal meaning. Last year, Fetzner approached engineering assistant professor Cheol-Hong Min because he was struck by Min’s research topic: Developing an audio and motion sensor system for children with autism that can objectively measure what emotions they’re expressing.
“Most of my family, including myself, has moderate to severe hearing loss. … Even though it’s a different disability for me, this project is the same goal: working to help communicate with those who it’s much harder for,” Fetzner said.
The project is an extension of one Min started in graduate school, and is rooted in feedback from doctors and parents. Many have discussed the difficulty of tracking treatment progress based only on the subjective evaluations of parents, caretakers or teachers. A system is being developed that can track, with sensors, the behaviors and motions of nonverbal children with autism. The sound and video can then be analyzed and aligned with knowledge of what emotions are being communicated, resulting in an objective viewpoint of behavior to inform treatment.
“The ultimate goal is also real-time feedback. Say, when the child is making some noise it would alert the parent to know they’re not happy. Otherwise you have to be with the child 24/7,” Min said. “If you’re at a remote location, first floor of the house and the child is [on the] second floor, you could be provided through your phone or a wearable device an alert [of what emotions they’re expressing].”
Something as complex as creating an emotional map requires the development of an accurate algorithm, which is what Fetzner is working on full time this summer. He is breaking down video and audio of children with autism. With each inputted example, he increases the accuracy of the algorithm.
“It is satisfying to see [Min’s] algorithm work for detecting stimming [repeated physical movements associated with people with autism] without human intervention. The goal is to eventually not only use the recognition of the stimming to determine if it’s a positive or negative emotion, but potentially break those out into different emotions like angry or sad, or with the positive side to happy and satisfied,” Fetzner said. “[Improving the algorithm] is like if we gave you a set of words you didn’t know and had a dictionary to look it up, and each time you get a new word you can put it in your dictionary and add it, to make the dictionary better. … [The algorithm] gets better at what it’s doing.”
In the process, Fetzner also gets better at what he’s doing: gaining experience in a career field where he can help make the world better.
“Not only is it great research, but it fits perfectly in the field I’d like to go into working with communication, and it really worked toward my goal of trying to help people,” he said. “It’s easy money for engineers to go into oil or something else that’s less directly helping people, but I’ve always hoped I could go into the medical field or something similar where I’m developing solutions to help make people’s lives easier.”
Norway is something of a geological mystery.
It has high and rugged mountainous terrain, which a geologist would expect to find in a place where there is a lot of activity between tectonic plates. Here’s the mysterious part: Norway has been isolated from that sort of activity for more than 50 million years. How is that possible?
Jeni McDermott, assistant professor in the Department of Geology, and her students are trying to answer that. Funded by a grant from the American Chemical Society Petroleum Research Fund, she took Elliott Allen ’19 and Jenna Abrahamson ’19 to Norway this summer to continue research.
“This is research that nobody’s done before,” McDermott said. “There isn’t a known answer. So, I’m looking for students who can work within that world, who are comfortable with critically thinking about ideas.”
McDermott has looked at the Norway question for the past two years. Her methodology focuses on the behaviors of rivers: When there is behavior that is different from the expected, she seeks what happened to have caused such a change. Rivers are sensitive to tectonic motions, so McDermott hopes to “read” the rivers to reveal what tectonic motions caused the mountainous terrain in Norway.
“I basically chase waterfalls for a living,” McDermott said. “I stand there and realize there’s this huge disturbance – this waterfall that’s breathtakingly gorgeous, and has tons of water powerfully flowing over it. It’s my job to untangle why that is there and what it’s trying to say about the landscape evolution. That’s always a little humbling.”
Allen and Abrahamson both become interested in working with McDermott after they lived in the Sustainability Living Learning Community during their first year at St. Thomas and did geology research on a trip to Nevada.
For the Norway trip, they began by studying what McDermott and two previous students had collected on a prior trip, as well as examining images on Google Earth. A lot of new technology is available within the field of geology, such as GIS (Geographic Information Systems). McDermott said balancing all that technology with fieldwork is key.
“A lot of things become much clearer when you can put your hands on it, put your feet on it,” McDermott said. “You’re observing these processes happening right in front of you, and the small-scale stuff you see that day relates to the larger-scale things that have occurred over geological time. … Your field work is limited by your inability to see things from a grand view, and your grand-view computer work is limited by not being able to touch and see things.”
Serving as collaborators
Allen’s part of the project focuses on river reorganization, which is when one river cuts back and captures the other, usually resulting in the reversal of the stream.
“The ultimate goal of that will be to reconstruct what the rivers used to look like and what happened to get them to their current configuration,” McDermott said.
McDermott emphasized that because there aren’t known answers to the questions they’re asking, students problem solve and collaborate on the work.
“Being in the field with people, you can’t help but become closer,” McDermott said. “It helps the science when you can trust each other like that.”
That opportunity was something that both Allen and Abrahamson appreciated.
“Working directly with renowned geologists means the level of conversation was higher,” said Allen, who said the experience so far has been incredibly valuable because it has given him a real sense of what he can do in the field.
“Probably the best part of the day was coming back at the end, after being out in the field, having dinner and just recapping the day,” said Abrahamson, who is focusing on an area called Surnadal where there’s an unusual and large gorge.
The three of them spent a little over two weeks in the field this summer and, having returned with fresh data, measurements and samples, they’ll spend the rest of the summer breaking down the information and getting a little closer to understanding Norway.
“It’s such an incredible opportunity for students like me and my peers … to do research like this,” Abrahamson said. “I would definitely encourage students to research that out. It’s made my beginning at St. Thomas and got me involved with the department right away.”
The landlocked country of Mali in West Africa has a problem: After rampant deforestation, the Sahara Desert is creeping in from the north and eroding more and more arable soil into wasteland. One potential solution is the implementation of a specific type of sorghum plant that produces the crop itself, plus sap, and has been shown to regenerate the soil it’s planted it. Pretty cool, right?
There’s another problem: Turning sorghum sap into its usable, sellable syrup form takes boiling away about 90 percent of its water components. Removing that much water takes a lot of energy, which is at a premium in a place like Mali. For going on three years now engineering professors Greg Mowry and Camille George have been working to develop a portable, low-cost, durable system for this whole process, and with their 60-some years of experience they turned in spring semester to a seemingly unlikely source: a freshman.
“I landed in a meeting with Camille George [fall semester] and she said, ‘If you want to do research, come find me next semester and we’ll set you up with a project,'” now-sophomore Emily Walsh said. “I thought it was a good opportunity, so I grabbed it.”
This summer Walsh is grabbing that opportunity more than ever, pursuing the project full time and providing a new perspective in the process.
“She’s a self-selected, self-motivated and interested student, and she’s now part of the team as of completing one year,” Mowry said. “We haven’t been able to crack this nut in a way that allows for its use and meets all the requirements. We’re hoping Emily helps with that, with those fresh eyes. … It’s an important combination of new ways of looking at things, experience and youth.”
With the goal of helping to develop a workable prototype by fall semester so they can test with actual sorghum sap when it arrives, Walsh is diving deep into the syrup world. That started with a visit to a sugar shack in Taylors Falls last spring. As she’s continued to work, she’s built on past student designs.
“It’s really exciting. It’s interesting to see how many little details there are that go into everything,” Walsh said. “When you look at a big picture in the beginning and Camille described it to me, it was just, ‘Wow, that’s really cool.’ Now I see the amount of work that has to go into each little element. Right now we’re trying to buy a pump, and every little thing you have to consider is a whole new challenge.”
After two meaningful mission trip experiences to the Dominican Republic when she was in high school, Walsh said contributing to a project with such powerful potential to help others drives her work every day.
“The second year I was [in the Dominican Republic] I was talking to a trip leader and they showed me designs for this oven; they have these shacks they do cooking in and the smoke is really bad for their respiratory systems. These moms are in there cooking and will have babies on their hips, so he showed me this engineer design for an oven with this smoke stack to help solve that problem. That’s so cool!” she said. “I know I want to help people and use my love for math, for physics, to help people however I can. That’s always been a big motivator for me with this project.”
Tyler Ogorek is doing research this summer that may one day be used to treat tuberculosis and save lives. Ogorek, a senior biochemistry major, is working on compounds to help fight bacterial diseases that are becoming resistant to antibiotics such as penicillin.
Chemistry professor Tom Ippoliti has led this research since 2008, and Ogorek is one of 12 St. Thomas students working in Ippoliti’s lab this summer.
Bacteria resisting the antibacterials used to treat them is a problem in the pharmaceutical world. Tuberculosis, a bacterial disease that affects the lungs, is still one of the deadliest diseases in the world, killing approximately 1.2 million people each year, and has remained so recently because of its evolution of resistance to drug treatment.
Ippoliti originally began work on this problem after hearing a former student who was working for a pharmaceutical company talk about oxazolidinones, a class of compounds that inhibits the growth of bacteria. Ippoliti thought if he made a change to the structure of the compound he could make it work better.
He was right.
That initial thought has grown across the years, including a collaboration with Johns Hopkins University. Students like Ogorek make derivatives of the molecule, working to increase its ability to act in the body. After the molecules are synthesized they are sent to Johns Hopkins to be tested against dangerous bacteria like tuberculosis, which labs need clearance to handle.
“Normally you can’t test for bugs that are so dangerous, and so we’re very fortunate to be able to collaborate with a lab that has high-security clearances,” Ippoliti said.
There is also growing potential for a viable product that can go to market.
“We’ve identified several that don’t work, and that’s almost as important as the finding ones that do work, because it guides us on what structures we should be working on,” Ippoliti said.
The plan this summer is to synthesize six new compounds. Ippoliti expects Ogorek, who has worked on the project since January 2016, will likely complete three this summer. Ogorek is also working on the project as part of a Young Scholars Grant.
Teaching students to attain their goals
Contributing to relevant research was one of Ogorek’s draws to St. Thomas.
“St. Thomas has what I guess you could call a pledge that you get into research by sophomore year if you want to,” Ogorek said. “I wanted to come to a place where they would really support undergraduate research and I honestly could not be happier with the department.”
He said researching on a project such as Ippoliti’s means learning in a hands-on way and finding why something does or does not work.
“We’re learning how to properly handle ourselves with these really dangerous compounds,” said Ogorek, who emphasized that rigorous safety is also an important part of the learning experience.
While Ogorek entered St. Thomas planning to go to medical school, his research experience helped him hone what he wants to do after graduating.
“It suits me better to be working in a lab” and working on creating medicine rather than to be the one prescribing it, Ogorek said. “I feel like I can also make a bigger difference.”
Ippoliti said after doing research on this project students can easily continue their education or career paths.
“It’s very easy for them to get into graduate school after doing work on these types of compounds because they’re so synthetically challenging,” Ippoliti said. Students of his have gone onto Johns Hopkins, California Institute of Technology and Yale.
“Our goal is to really help society and do something useful,” Ippoliti said. “The other primary goal is to train students in how to do chemistry research and help them attain their goals.”
At 6:05 p.m. on Aug. 1, 2007, the architectural landscape along Minneapolis’ scenic riverfront dramatically changed. A gusset plate holding together the I-35W bridge failed, sending the structure plummeting into the Mississippi River. One-hundred-eleven vehicles were impacted and 13 people ultimately died.
The process of recovery began almost immediately, involving 75 local, state and federal agencies, among them the Washington County Sheriff’s Office. Mike Barrett, associate director of the St. Thomas Public Safety Office, and Wayne Johnson, Public Safety’s Minneapolis campus manager, served on the office’s water recovery team.
Barrett, a deputy sheriff and 16-year volunteer with the office, served as a dive tender in the recovery operation. Johnson, a retired deputy sergeant who continues to volunteer, was a diver.
With the anniversary approaching, they recently returned to the 35W bridge and reflected on their experience.
What was your role on the recovery team that day?
MB: We provided mutual aid assistance to the Minneapolis Police Department, the Hennepin County Sheriff’s Office and other federal agencies on a recover operation. Our primary duties were to identify underwater targets and to map and clear them. Vehicles found were searched and cleared to ensure there were no bodies inside. My specific assignment was land support as a tender.
Tenders direct divers with voice commands using a communication system built into the ropes used to secure them.
WJ: My role during the recovery was as a diver to locate and identify vehicles and any other subsurface hazards, identify underwater evidence and recover human remains. At one point during the dive operations we had located a government vehicle that needed to be thoroughly searched and have any computers or documents recovered.
What was most memorable about the day?
MB: It was a very long 18-hour day. It felt surreal to be in the city limits of Minneapolis and hear only the sounds of nature and no city noise or vehicle traffic.
WJ: It was a very solemn work environment, as it always is on these types of tragedies. I remember also being surprised and shocked that in this day and age a bridge of this magnitude could just fall into the river. And of course we had our concerns about what really happened, as we were just a few years removed from the 9/11 attack.
I had been in Desert Storm and remember what it was like to see blown up buildings. And here we were seeing something like this but in the middle of Minnesota.
With so much debris in the river, the conditions must have been treacherous.
WJ: If you look at any of the photos of the bridge collapse you can see the amount of concrete, vehicles leaking gas and oil, rebar that was sticking out at all sorts of weird angles. The fear of the bridge continuing to collapse upon itself, plus the speed of the river due to the recent heavy rains, created a very treacherous environment for diving.
Most people can’t imagine what diving in dark water is like. It’s like standing in your closet at midnight with your face in a bowl of chocolate pudding. There’s no light so you must do everything by feel. Each object you touch you have to try to use your mind’s eye to figure out what it is and decide whether it’s an object of interest or just subsurface clutter.
MB: Our advanced training and preparation was no match for how dangerous it was. Over the course of the operation, we had several divers lose communication with tenders due to stressed communication lines. Some divers were literally sucked under the collapsed bridge due to fast moving water.
That day I tended a diver from a neighboring agency who was one that was sucked under the debris. I lost communication with him and he was unable to understand my rope signals because he wasn’t trained with our methodology. This led to a policy change about who dives with our team and what credentials they need to have.
It must take an incredible amount of bravery to enter the water under those conditions. Were you scared?
WJ: As I look over what I have done in my life, 32 years of military and civilian law enforcement, veteran of the Persian Gulf War and 24 years with the Washington County Sheriff’s Office, the diving under the 35W bridge was my closest near-death experience.
As I was under searching a vehicle for remains or evidence my line had somehow become slack. With no visual reference I was unable to determine where I was on the bottom of the river. When my time was up for me to surface, which is limited by my air supply, I began my ascent believing I had a clear assent to the surface of the river. However, with the heavy current I began swimming up only to find I was trapped under the bridge; I realized that with the amount of rebar and other subsurface clutter it would have been extremely difficult for my lines not to get entangled and me to get out of there without running out of air and drowning.
I just remember thinking very clearly that this was going to be the end, but by the grace of God the surface support team managed to pull me out and I was able to get free from up under the bridge deck.
How did this compare with other recovery operations you have experienced?
WJ: This operation was different because of the the sheer scale. We’ve done other operations with another team or two but never this many teams or agencies involved from local, state and federal levels.
MB: Hearing stress in the voices of very experienced team members, losing the ability to communicate and calm them, the event being in the national news cycle for so long, and a site visit from First Lady Laura Bush certainly made it unique. The sound of Marine One sure broke up the monotony and serenity of the day.
It must be mentally and emotionally taxing to do this type of work. How do you deal with that?
MB: More than anything knowing we are providing a unique service few people choose to do: help families and survivors in their healing process.
WJ: It is very taxing. It’s difficult emotionally because you are looking for someone’s loved one. During an operation you compartmentalize those emotions and feelings because you realize you have a job to do. But then after the job is over that’s where sometimes professional help is sought for dealing with some of the issues that are encountered. We are a very close team and we talk and work through it.
Are you still in touch with people who assisted on the recovery?
MB: Many of us have remained on the Washington County water recovery team, or keep in touch with past members. The connection with those partners is and always will be about assisting families with closure.
WJ: The dive community in this area is very small and specialized. This type of work is a calling. It is a very important mission and we all understand that and it’s not for everybody. Many of the people on the Washington County Sheriff’s Office water recovery team are still on the team today because of that sense of pride and duty.
What motivates you to do this type of work?
MB: The teamwork involved, knowing how critical the work is for our community, that few people actually choose to do it. And closure – that we can help find and return loved ones to grieving family members.
WJ: At the sheriff’s office there are not a lot of people volunteering to be part of the water recovery team. It is very important work and I have a skill that can be utilized to bring closure for someone’s family. But with that being said it is not just about my skill alone; for every one diver that’s in the water it takes four people on the surface for that diver to be successful and safe, so it’s very much a team feeling. It’s not an individual endeavor at all.
In 2008, Barrett was awarded the St. Thomas Distinguished Citizen Award in part for his work on the 35W bridge recovery efforts.
“Tell Me More” is an occasional series from the Newsroom where St. Thomas faculty experts tackle topical questions in their area of study in two minutes or less. The answers may be presented in written, audio or video form, but they will all have one thing in common: You’ll click away smarter than you were 120 seconds ago.
In this edition of Tell Me More, engineering assistant professor Katherine Acton discusses the many factors that went into the I35W bridge collapsing 10 years ago, an event she discusses regularly with her engineering students. Three pieces of the bridge have been kept at St. Thomas since 2013; they are a reminder to engineering faculty and students of the importance of the lessons learned from the disaster.
The following is a transcript of an interview with Acton, which has been shortened and edited for clarity.
The I35 bridge collapsed for a number of reasons, and the story of it is actually fairly complex. A lot of people like to give a simple answer, which is that the gusset plates failed, and that is true, the gusset plates were under-designed in the 1960s, but to pin it on that simple mistake misses a lot of other factors. The bridge stood for 40 years and during that time a lot of things happened: More loads were added to the bridge; the loads on the bridge due to weight limits were increased; and the bridge needed to be maintained, as all bridges do. There were many aspects to the failure.
Another problem with the bridge is that it lacked structural redundancy, so there weren’t a lot of load paths to maintain the integrity of the bridge if certain load paths failed. … That was recognized as a problem and that made the bridge more vulnerable.
There were also construction loads on the bridge that day, they had parked sand and gravel on the bridge … It turns out, and I teach this in my classes, that the location of those trucks and loads was actually in the exact wrong place. There are better and worse places in any structure to put a large load and it happened that was a particularly poor place for those loads to be.
Another factor globally speaking is that as a society we have a real reluctance to put money into maintaining structures. It’s easy to do ribbon ceremonies and you get a lot of political capitol from doing that; it’s much less popular to say we’re going to shut down a major road that a lot of people use to commute to work every day, and it’s going to cost a lot of money. … You have to think of the public policy and the choices that were made. That reflects on us a bit as society and as voters, that we need to support maintenance as part of caretaking our infrastructure.
I try to talk about all these factors in my classes … because I like for our students to have a sense of the technical engineering aspects that failed right here in our backyard, but to also give them a more well-rounded perspective about other aspects of the bridge aspect.
It’s important also to know that we’re teaching the lessons of the I35 bridge and all these aspects of the failure to make sure something good comes out of this tragedy.